The Real Random Podcast: Where Real Estate Meets Real Life
Welcome to "The Real Random Podcast," where we're more than just Realtors. We're explorers of life's rich tapestry. Hosted by a trio of seasoned real estate pros, each episode surprises you with a mystery guest that only one host knows about in advance.
Our mission? To dig deeper. We go beyond the property listings and the coaching sessions to get to know our guests as mothers, fathers, and individuals with unique stories to tell.
Expect spontaneous conversations, heartfelt connections, and a ton of fun along the way. Whether you're in the real estate industry or just love a good, genuine conversation, "The Real Random Podcast" offers something for everyone.
Join us as we delve into the intriguing world of real estate and the fascinating people that make it all happen.
The Real Random Podcast: Where Real Estate Meets Real Life
Matt Johnson | Mastering Microfame and Thought Leadership
What if you could transform your podcasting passion into a lucrative business? Matt Johnson, the mastermind behind "Microfamous," joins us to share his unconventional yet highly effective strategies for monetizing real estate podcasts. Matt's journey from self-described hermit to the "Helen of Troy of podcasts" is filled with humor and wisdom, offering a unique perspective on social media platforms like Threads and Clubhouse, which he amusingly dubs as mere time-wasters. Listen in as we uncover Matt's secrets to building successful podcasts, and enjoy a few personal quirks from our hosts, such as Ray's affinity for bookbinding and midday cocktails.
Curious about how niche-focused content can outperform mainstream appeal? Matt reveals the surprising truth about monetizing real estate podcasts, drawing comparisons between broad agent audiences and specialized high-performing team leaders. Discover why traditional advertising falls short and how building relationships through consulting and coaching can generate more revenue. We also delve into unconventional sponsorships and affiliations like EXP Realty, emphasizing the significance of targeting core business offerings for maximum profitability.
Ever wondered how to balance personal integrity with professional success? Matt Johnson's non-traditional views on hustle culture, goal-setting, and prioritizing family life offer refreshing insights. From his early days challenging popular beliefs to his musical endeavors, Matt's path illuminates the value of truth and effectiveness over mainstream popularity. We explore his concept of becoming "micro-famous" and how focusing on a specific niche can lead to greater opportunities and recognition. This episode is packed with engaging discussions, thought-provoking ideas, and practical advice for anyone looking to carve out their unique path to success.
I don't want to be famous, just a little famous, and that's why we're talking with the author of Microfamous today. Hey there, welcome to Real Random, where the world of real estate gets a whole lot more exciting. I'm Ray, joined by Rick and Rebecca, and here's the deal Every episode, one of us surprises the other with a special guest from the real estate universe Think top professionals, industry rebels and unsung heroes of real estate. We're talking unscripted, unpredictable and undeniably real. So are you ready for the random? All right? Well, welcome to Real Random.
Speaker 2:Can I just really launch off with that? Yeah?
Speaker 1:I feel a little bit sorry for our guests because they never know, like when are we actually on or when are we you?
Speaker 2:know in 30 minutes. Then we'll bring you in and you can talk about whatever at that point.
Speaker 1:We're just going to chat while you sit there.
Speaker 3:We may or may not let you talk.
Speaker 2:That's fine. They said they're going to have like a hostage situation going on with like a hood, no lights.
Speaker 1:Listen, do you say they? I mean last time you gave it away a little bit because, you said he and then the person that yeah, and then the person was like the most dope guest. So I was like okay, it's a west coast he there's a limited number of, but this one we have.
Speaker 3:No, we have, it's just guests sitting there, so I'm excited to get to them all right, so you want to start, you want to kick off should we? Should we even get it? You just want to kick off.
Speaker 2:Tell us a little something about him. Should we, should we even get into it?
Speaker 3:You just want to make him wait the whole show, just talk about something else.
Speaker 2:No, okay. So our guest today could be called the Helen of Troy of podcasts. He thinks threads and clubhouse are a waste of time. He considers himself to be a hermit, while also running a successful marketing company that helps others become micro famous. Please help me welcome the talented matt johnson. Matt, where is he there?
Speaker 4:he is I assume this is the part where I unmask yeah, there you go very good good, it's like being on a holly show. This is like a Hollywood squares.
Speaker 1:Nice. Well, when she was given the description, I felt like she was talking about me. I'm like I'm already on the show. I definitely think some of those things are a waste of time. All right, good.
Speaker 4:I was. I was watching to see who I would offend in the first 30 seconds of that, without even saying a word myself.
Speaker 1:I figured that'd be pretty impressive Kudos to you on following all the instructions and getting here without us knowing at all who you were Way to go.
Speaker 2:I am a little disappointed that there's no hood, though I was kind of wanting a Scooby-Doo reveal, I would have gotten away with it too, All of my pillowcases were occupied.
Speaker 4:There's drugs and money stuffed and I have to move the drugs and money out of the pillowcases. It's just a hassle.
Speaker 3:Maybe that's how we do future episodes. We do it like the Masked Singer.
Speaker 2:We're a mask and he gets me the mask, the Masked Podcaster. Okay, so I do have to ask did anybody understand the Helenen of troy reference?
Speaker 1:no, no, no, you would flew it whooshed right over me.
Speaker 2:I knew it would launch thing, yes so the the face that launched a thousand ships matt has launched like a thousand podcasts, so it just it fit. I wanted to bring a little bit more of like a highbrow level to this you start dipping into classic literature and historical events.
Speaker 1:And yeah, as I, as I sit in my Modelo.
Speaker 3:So question for Matt Matt, do you only buy red books?
Speaker 1:No, there's actually a white yellow.
Speaker 2:There's a lovely blue section down here but, they can't see it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Apparently, if you want to be a successful publisher, the cover's got to be red or yellow, or if you want matt to buy the book, it's got to be red, yellow or white they said there's a blue section down below.
Speaker 2:We just can't see it there's actually two, two blue books, that's it yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 4:I hate, I hate any authors that have a blue book. I just I don't know about them. Uh, they do catch the eye. I will say like uh, red, red is so that's mine, which is why it's like right behind me. So then I stuck the red section right next to it and then like, yeah, next thing you know, you have like all red books behind you.
Speaker 2:How many copies of your own book do you have on the shelf?
Speaker 4:All the thousands that I haven't sold, all of them.
Speaker 2:Oh, I meant to say that you also have many leather-bound books.
Speaker 1:But that apparently would have been a lie. Those are in the other room. Yeah, those. Do you really have leather bound books? No, okay, because I do like book binding.
Speaker 4:I could go go in on some book binding. Yeah, I've never gotten that nerdy about books, like when you start getting into binding materials like you've lost even me oh, they're cool man oh goodness, we're learning so much about ray doing this.
Speaker 2:We really are he apparently likes to drink on the podcast.
Speaker 4:He loves many leather dungeon master who likes to bind books yes, I've been on some shows where it's like a friday afternoon and you know you crack a beer or whatever this is a. Wednesday at noon. Pacific I just want to point out to anyone that's listening to this later this is not five o'clock on a Thursday or Friday this is a midday midweek.
Speaker 1:I think somewhere it is five.
Speaker 2:Well, it's 2 pm in Arkansas but again it's Arkansas, so I'm surprised you waited this long. Wow, I've been in the Midwest, I know how it is.
Speaker 1:That's true, I didn't wait, I started at 12. But anyway.
Speaker 2:All right. So, matt, like I said before, he makes people micro famous, and I don't know if you've heard of his book called Micro famous, the one that has the the red cover on the back there. But that is all about becoming micro famous, which is what we are all trying to do these days, it seems, does seem that way what's the significance of micro?
Speaker 1:when you say micro famous, it's yeah it's not small famous, but it's famous in a niche yeah, preferably a profitable one.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, like, if you're going to, if you're going to be micro famous, it better be in a niche where people have money. That's kind of, that's kind of important. Uh, otherwise you'll end up being very poor. Yeah, well, it came about in like indirectly, uh, because I was doing what you guys are doing, right, I started a podcast called real estate uncensored a million years ago in 2015. We were kind of one of the original 10 real estate podcasts, right, and so that's done really well. So that's a 3 million downloads and counting. It has like a mainstream agent audience, right.
Speaker 4:But around that same time, I launched the team building podcast with Jeff Cohn, which I also co-hosted for several years, and that was aimed at, like cream of the crop, team leaders. Like you're doing 50 to a hundred deals or more a year. That's the only people that are going to come to his workshop for $3,000 in Omaha, nebraska, and spend two days to learn all their systems, right. So that podcast has never done the number of downloads that my first one did, and that's fine. It does really well in that niche and that niche is where all the people who have money hang out. So that podcast built a six figure coaching consulting business inside of real estate in a couple of years and now, even like what is it Seven years later is still the primary driver of that consulting business and gets 200 people to show up to their yearly event. So, yeah, that was like a huge light bulb moment that the number, like the going for the mainstream audience and going for the big numbers, doesn't actually make you more money.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So your other podcast with 3 million downloads, that one's not doing near the revenue that your other one is. But it's not necessarily from ad revenue, because I think a lot of a lot of creators kind of look at getting famous on YouTube or getting famous on Tik TOK or getting famous in the podcast world and think, well, I'm going to sell ads against it, but you're saying no, no, no, there's so much. There's a totally different revenue stream that you have access to through the connections.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean honestly, selling advertising is like the worst business model Uh rough. So we did that. In the real estate space. We've done everything that you can possibly do to monetize a show like this. Right, we've done company sponsorships short term, we tried long term. We've had companies bring us in because they heard us on the podcast and then brought us in to train their sales team and we've done paid speaking gigs and we've done this.
Speaker 4:We ended up being just like recruiting and building a downline under EXP. But we also tried like coaching. We also did we created courses and sold courses and stuff like that off the show. The EXP is the best thing that's working. So we'll make six figures a year off the back end of the podcast. But like indirectly, by talking about EXP or just basically getting somebody into a relationship and then they go. You know what I was already thinking about joining. I'd rather join through you guys so that I have the relationship with you guys and can lean on you for support. So, yeah, like it was a very roundabout way to monetize a podcast. It's the most like indirect way you can imagine, but it actually ended up being the best for us and all the other stuff that we tried like ads. You'd be shocked at how much work it takes to make maybe a grand a month and like offset your podcast costs. You have to bend over backwards for sponsors just to make that pittance, that pocket change to keep. You know, just to say that you have sponsors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true. I have a little news podcast we've had for about five years just real estate news, and in that we always get contacted by advertisers saying, hey, we want to advertise on your show and it always sounds up front like a good deal. And then when you start to dig in and what they ask for, I'm like this totally takes out time for me selling real estate, which I make 10 times more doing that. So it's always, and what's funny, for years we were called the Bearded Men of Real Estate Show and there was a company that was. They sell razors.
Speaker 4:And they kept on. I'm like you. We don't use think you get what's going on here. Beard oil maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really awkward partnership like this.
Speaker 4:This is not kind of what we love our beards, but at some point, when we decide, we hate them.
Speaker 1:This is the product that we'll use this is product I'm considering using many years down the road.
Speaker 2:No they figure gb manscaping other areas, that's all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the most likely.
Speaker 1:Manscaped did reach out, but I just couldn't put that on a net. It's hard to go from like hey, here's what's happening in the news to. By the way, are you feeling hairy?
Speaker 2:I got the product.
Speaker 1:What's the segue there? That's right.
Speaker 4:I mean segue there, that's right. I mean, oh, those painful brazilian waxes, it's, isn't it about time?
Speaker 1:you stop that.
Speaker 2:That's right, kelly clarkson, wait so matt, are you with exp?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah, it's. Uh.
Speaker 2:We've been with them since 2018 I'm so sorry we have to kick you off. Yeah, that's well, and I don't talk about it publicly.
Speaker 4:But if you ask, like, how we monetize the show, if we get into that discussion, I'll let people know, just so, just so they don't have unrealistic expectations, because I want, you know, I have people come in that you know they want to launch a show, they want to launch a podcast, youtube channel, whatever. And yeah, they come in with the exact same ideas that you guys mentioned, which is that, well, let's, you know, let's sell advertising to offset at least offset the cost of the show. Everybody wants to zero base their podcast. I'm like, just stop, like, if you sell one one coaching package, one course a month, it offsets the cost of your podcast In most cases. Like, just stop trying to diversify and offset the cost and just sell more of the shit that you sell. Right, just sell more stuff. So, yeah, like when you get into that conversation, that's when I'll mention it, because then it keeps people's expectations realistic, as opposed to, oh, I can just do X, y, z, throw out some ad dollars and make six figures a year, cause, no, you can't, unless you're doing multiple millions of downloads a year, and even then it's a pain in the butt.
Speaker 4:So, anyway, yeah, so the book was basically like, like, hey, future clients, here's all the stuff. I wish you knew, like all the inside baseball about this stuff and what it actually takes to to pull this off. Uh, and, more importantly, like I have a lot of people coming in that come from like the hustle bro, gary V culture, and they think that's how you grow a show. So they come in going, hey, what are you going to do for me on social media to grow a show? And I go you know we're going to do certain things, but that's not what actually makes a show successful. To begin with, you've got to get your head straight and look at things completely differently. So I just found myself having like the same conversations over and over again, and so I just put that stuff in the book.
Speaker 4:And that's the way it works.
Speaker 2:I know you're a big fan of hustle culture.
Speaker 4:Oh, I love it, I live, breathe it every day, hustle and grind.
Speaker 1:Every day Hustle and grind.
Speaker 4:That's right. If you could see my tattoos, I have Gary V tattooed on my back.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh.
Speaker 4:Yeah, double sized.
Speaker 2:Full portrait. No, if you look at Matt's YouTube and his Instagram, you'll see he is not a super fan of that. At least that's how it seems.
Speaker 4:No, I'm not.
Speaker 2:I don't think he's a bad guy.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 4:I think he's a guy who had one good idea and he executed on that and now he's kind of spurred a movement and the movement has outgrown him and the movement has gone, like screaming, probably, off in a direction that he really doesn't have a lot of control over anymore.
Speaker 4:And so he's trying to talk to younger people. He's trying to talk about work, ethic and stuff, but that's not my market and that's not probably any of us. Like, once you're successful, you've kind of figured out how to put the donut down and get off the couch and get to work. Now the question is how do we get what we want without giving up our lifestyle and our integrity? And if you want a family like that, like giving up all that stuff, because what you end up with the Gary V Grant Cardone approach is you put all that stuff at risk to get one thing to get known, to get famous. And the problem is most people that I know that want to be influential, they want to impact lives and they want to be known for that. They don't want to have their kids hate them in 10 years and they're not willing to do what it takes to get famous, if that's what it means.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like you have a non-traditional approach to business and having influence and all this stuff?
Speaker 4:I have a non-traditional approach to everything, from the time I was little and used to tell people there is no Santa Claus. Stop believing in that crap.
Speaker 1:Spoiler alert If you have children in the room, jeez I know A lot of content warning on this.
Speaker 2:Let's see.
Speaker 4:Then, when I was 12, I remember sitting in youth group and offending all 100 kids there by telling them rap music there was no way they're like. Christian rap music was a misnomer. There was no such thing which was a dumb point of view, by the way. But I had no problem pissing off literally everyone in that room, including my own best friend, I literally had a hundred heads turn around and, like, start yelling at me what was the reasoning behind that?
Speaker 2:there is no christian race super fundamental.
Speaker 4:so it was like if it wasn't worship music, if it wasn't like church music, it wasn't allowed. Basically, um, it's all bs, like I'm you know, rebecca, and I've talked about that outside of this. Like I have very different views now but I had no problem pissing people off. So, yeah, like I pretty much approach everything contrarian, but hopefully not for its Right. So one of the things that the best things I got from my dad, who was a pastor growing up, was that it doesn't matter what I think, it doesn't matter what you or anybody else thinks, the truth is all that matters. And so you can think you have the truth and that's great, shout from the rooftops. But as soon as you figure out that what you believe isn't quite the truth and you adjust accordingly immediately and get your act together. And so I am more concerned with what's right and what works rather than whether I said it or not.
Speaker 1:That's good, because I was just about to bust into a Christian rap. No, I'm just kidding, that's right.
Speaker 4:Propaganda Look right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, if you know. Look right, he's a good friend of mine, is he no?
Speaker 4:One of my good friends almost got signed by Toby Mac.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 4:Well, which is funny because I talk about my beliefs changing, Like in 2013, I literally produced, played every instrument and sang on a Christian hip-hop album.
Speaker 1:That's how much I changed. Hold on album.
Speaker 2:That's how much I change. You go from saying there is no christian rap music to I'm gonna produce an entire hip-hop album yeah in the christian space, you know as as one does as one does.
Speaker 4:You're like there's actually some money here there was no money involved, believe me, oh my god, no, it was a passion project.
Speaker 1:It was a passion project, yes, okay, so you, you play every instrument, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, how has that? Has that gotten you anything other than just some joy in your life?
Speaker 1:uh, I was gonna say an endless roller coaster ride of frustration I'm not the guitar guy at the park, no, I'm I wish I was that guy oh, that guy has it so easy just pick up and play a little no, I. I grew up with drumsticks in my hands when my grandparents got that. Guy has it so easy, just pick up and play a little Don.
Speaker 4:McLean Go home with the hottest girl at the party. No, I grew up with drumsticks in my hands. My grandparents got me sticks at age two. I picked up like piano in my mid-teens and then like enough guitar and bass to like get by, but I couldn't like play. I couldn't pick up guitar like acoustic guitar at a party, like play songs. If you sat me in front of a piano because I played worship music and stuff, I was the guy that like brought the room down as in like not a good way.
Speaker 1:I don't mean brought the house down, I mean brought the mood down.
Speaker 4:So, no, I love what I do. I love that Like I have a style that I enjoy, but it's not for everybody, and so, no, I was never that guy. I got into playing bands in my mid twenties20s. That's when I joined my first real rock band and that was a lot of fun. I took a shot at being a pro musician for about five years, got into like I was playing in four bands at a time. We did get pitched to record labels. I got signed to management that's as far as I could push it and then I had one of my 17th midlife crisis and decided to get out of that in your 20s uh, yeah, that was well.
Speaker 4:I chased the dream at a very odd age for a rock star 20 age 27 to 32 so I can't later. Oh yeah, this is this is after I started a real estate team. I started a real estate team in 06, got out of the business in 07 and, oh yeah, summer of 07 who didn't get out of business in 07.
Speaker 2:I did not have that's when I got into the business? Yeah, I joined in january of 07 yeah, jeff cohen, I graduated high school at the same time we don't want to hear them. We only hear things like that nobody likes you, becca, yeah come on listen, just because you're all old bearded men that's true, yeah so I am Our last guest. Was also named Matt and was in a rock band in his 20s. Yes, so that's like my theme, I'm only going to have Matt's to have a musical background on the show.
Speaker 3:Is Nick like low-key, trying to like put a band together?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but this is not so random. After all, the floor mats, yeah, taking over the world 2023.
Speaker 4:The floor mats, that's funny.
Speaker 1:I had a very short stint with a uh a group one weekend. Uh, me and my friends made it. It was called four stupid white guys. Okay, and, and the key was how, how you spell the word four, because okay there were four of us, but mainly what we decided to produce that one weekend was f-o-r. Stupid white guys.
Speaker 2:I was hoping it was going to be with. Oh my god it was fun it was mainly all like you know beatboxing and dumb.
Speaker 1:Uh, I would say, backcountry rap is what okay, yeah, what is it?
Speaker 4:uh, nappy roots, is that like kind?
Speaker 1:of a natural thing. Yeah, okay, it's just for a weekend, and then we were done my rap partner at the time was very into that.
Speaker 4:That stuff, yes the down.
Speaker 3:We have recordings of this no, there was no recording.
Speaker 1:It was literally on a camping type weekend, a retreat, and we're just like let's go and we, we had big dreams and then that was it. We never talked every now and then we'll talk about it like hey, four stupid white guys, I'll see him around matt, would we be able to find any of your music online on YouTube?
Speaker 4:Yeah, but not the hip-hop stuff I haven't put it out on YouTube.
Speaker 1:I was actually searching for it already, my laptop is for me.
Speaker 4:I enjoy listening to it. Yeah, if you go to Timeless Focus, there's a bunch of instrumental stuff there.
Speaker 2:Timeless Focus, but is that going to be like instrumental rock music or?
Speaker 4:Sort of yeah, I can send you. There's some covers that I've done over the last couple of years that are under my name. I did a yeah. The last thing I did in the studio was I took Phil Collins' In the Air Tonight and U2's New Year's Day and I mashed them up into one song.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Can we hear that right now? Can you please give us a live?
Speaker 4:performance.
Speaker 1:It's eight minutes long, so the answer is no, and that's one of my that's one of my favorite things to do are those, or to, to listen to are those matchups, because you know, I'm a very busy guy so I don't have a lot of time. So listening to two songs at once it's kind of ideal it's a time it's a time yeah, that's mainly how I look at it right.
Speaker 2:Do you have adhd? What's?
Speaker 1:going on here oh my God.
Speaker 4:Well, the good thing is is like the Weeknd and you know, flock of Seagulls are essentially the same thing. So I mean you can just, yeah, just, if you listen to the Weeknd, you've basically heard all 80s music.
Speaker 1:Nice Is this you.
Speaker 2:Is this what we Timeless?
Speaker 1:Focus yeah, that's the instrumental stuff At Timeless Focus on YouTube.
Speaker 2:I had no idea you were so talented. Productivity music that doesn't put you to sleep. I would probably need something like that, because everyone says, oh, listen to Lo-Fi. And that just makes me want to pass out.
Speaker 1:Yep, me too. I'm going to play a couple of seconds of it. I think I can get away with four seconds without getting an auto copyright strike, so I'm gonna go right to the middle.
Speaker 4:All right, here we go. Oh yeah, skip to about three quarters in.
Speaker 1:I like that and I like how you have your your book advertised right here it's in the bottom left corner of the screen, at the back of your laptop.
Speaker 4:I do, I do like laptop skins. Yes, yeah it's, that's smart, you said three quarters of the way that's it's over here. Yeah, because that's mostly when like solos and stuff are okay maybe not in this case. I happen to pick a slip.
Speaker 1:Oh, there you go, I like it. We have similar lights in the background, by the way.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, I got that little, little ship light oh, yeah, I love those, yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta. If you're gonna do youtube, you gotta have good, good, practical lights it breaks up the bokeh.
Speaker 1:You know you gotta get you gotta get something to break up the bokeh. Look back there, just to kind of add the eye. That's good man, so do you whenever you. Well, first like let's go way back yeah you launched a real estate team. Okay, you did a stint with uh, hip-hop career, right, sure, five year, five year tip. I assume you're doing other things while you're trying that you know most artists are doing odd jobs yeah odd jobs, yeah, yeah. So you went from that to launching a real estate podcast like what's this, what's?
Speaker 4:interim. What's the?
Speaker 1:middle. That kind of happened to where you are, where you are at the launch of that podcast.
Speaker 4:Okay, so I moved I was working a sales job managing a huge territory like most of the Midwest up into like Idaho. So I did, I traveled a bunch, came off the road, decided like I want to get like a full-time gig, I want to help my dad, you know, kind of maybe start another church again. This is like 2014. And so I moved to Omaha. I responded to one ad, and one ad only I. I got a call from the CEO that night. We ended up talking for an hour. So it's coming tomorrow for an audition or not, you know, like an interview with my business partner. So this is in Omaha and I got the gig and that was viral marketing, right? So viral marketing serves, like the real estate space. They do video and email marketing for a lot of the top agents around the country and because of that, they have a bunch of relationships with people that are like the next level up, which is the coaches, trainers, speakers, thought leaders, like all those types. Right? So I worked my way up from there and the plan was to put me in business development. So he brought me out to San Diego for training. Right, I was supposed to just come out here for training and then I was thinking about moving back to back to Denver and, um, I got out and I started running like webinars, right. So Joshua Smith, michael Mayer, matthew Ferry, greg Harrelson, like some really, really awesome people and uh, I was realizing that, oh, I like I really enjoy this, like these are fun, like I know the business, I know who the coaches are, like I know I know how to how to ask good questions Right. And uh, so one of them that I was doing the webinars with basically called me up one day. I was already working with him as a client too, so like we would get together every Friday and record videos for just his normal real estate practice Right, and he's like, dude, I've been thinking about starting a podcast because I think we should do it together and I'm like I was going to call you literally next week and pitch you the same thing. So sure, let's do it.
Speaker 4:That was real estate, right. So that was Greg McDaniel. So I started doing that. And then I hooked up with Jeff Cohn and he basically brought me on as a consultant to help grow his like what became elite real estate systems. It was like this big idea of coaching team leaders and stuff, right. So we launched that podcast. Then I launched Greg Harrelson's podcast, all like all kind of around that same within a year or so. So, yeah, I kind of got pulled into launching podcasts. That wasn't the plan. Um, I ended up I thought I was going to make my money in the real estate space, being like a thought leader and creating courses and training for agents and just be like the marketing guy for those businesses. The problem or opportunity or whatever was that, out of all the stuff that we tried podcasting was the thing that actually worked the best to grow those businesses.
Speaker 1:Which is exactly the opposite of most people. By the way, podcasting is a hard road to haul, so you put some special sauce on the podcast to make it work, I assume uh, you mean besides my sparkling personality?
Speaker 4:yeah, we know that didn't work yeah, exactly touche, uh, I've.
Speaker 4:I mean, yes, you did. To the. The answer is hopefully. Yes, hopefully, I have some special sauce. Yeah, I would say it's strategy, clear thinking, um, not just.
Speaker 4:You know, I've never been really seduced by the hustle culture stuff, and so we didn't just put a podcast out there and go, okay, great, now let's just work our butt off to promote it. We tried hard to create its own category, to do something different from what was already out there. So we still have videos from that time period, like 2015, 2016, where they're still getting hundreds of views now because they were like sales and marketing training. So, as opposed to all the interview stuff that was out there, which was a dime, a dozen even then that was seven years ago we came out and we had guests on, but it was like, okay, let's, let's fricking train the audience.
Speaker 4:And then a lot of the episodes that we did that were were hits for us were just me and Greg fricking content 45 minutes, bam bam, bam, bam bam. And those still do really well for us on YouTube. So that kind of separated us in the early days from other real estate podcasts that were just like so how do you like to market your business and it's just a whole bunch of scattered questions. It's the same questions for everybody and you know it was kind of it was fine when there was literally nothing else, but as soon as that was out there it was like, well, doing another one of those isn't going to get us anywhere. So I think that was the first secret sauce was just trying to create our own category, and even just the rudimentary attempts that we did with that goal ended up working.
Speaker 1:That's cool. So you had a pretty clear audience, pretty clear purpose of what you wanted, how you wanted to differentiate from the current market and it sounds like you leaned in to so there were, if I remember correct, and when about that time that was launching with the hustle culture was kind of at its I would say, at its all-time peak Maybe 2015. Yeah, you kind of took like a counterculture angle at that where you had to be successful you got to hustle.
Speaker 4:I did, you did, my co-host was all about it. That's good.
Speaker 1:That even makes it better when you have disagreement. That was part of the dynamic of the show.
Speaker 4:Yes, it was a lot of fun because we playfully disagreed a lot, so we would basically take questions from like random Facebook groups or we used to do it live on the show either on YouTube or on Facebook Right, so we're one of the we we got like backdoor access to one of the very first integrations with Facebook. Live was called lively, so like we were the first ones that were out there podcasting live on Facebook, so that that gave us a huge boost and so we were able to see like comments, the interaction. We were able to like answer questions in real time and, by the way, I could see the view count. So, as a podcast host, that got me real sharp, real quick, cause you realize when the numbers go down you're losing people's attention. You shift gears, like it. It trains you out of some of the bad podcasts anyway, oh, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:You learn to get into content real quick yeah that's so true, but but anyway, yeah, like because we were like able to do that stuff live, we're able to take questions live, and so we take these questions and then give our own spin on what we thought that person should do. And it was hilarious because our answers were so wildly different that the audience was like, like they have to kind of pick which one they liked better. But that was a really fun dynamic to have was two people that have completely different points of view and they would playfully yell at each other.
Speaker 2:Did people like your ideas more than his, or was it 50-50? No, they liked his more.
Speaker 4:Oh, absolutely Everybody loves hustle culture, I mean especially in real estate. I bet it's about 80-20. So here's how I think it breaks down. I would say it's like out of the average real estate agent, if they've heard of any of these people at all. Right, it's 80% hustle culture, 20% law of attraction, because the law of attraction is extremely attractive to agents because it doesn't require them to do anything, at least in their minds and I'm not saying that's the real Eastern philosophy side of it, but it to their minds. It means I can just think, I can wishy things. I can, I can wish nice things and nice things will happen for me. Um, I didn't believe those things.
Speaker 1:That's. That's what the person that goes to the ninja selling seminar comes out with. That wasn't really paying attention, like they ignore all the hard work that he talks about.
Speaker 4:It was the actual nitty-gritty relationship building. You just have to sit and think about it.
Speaker 2:Get your nlp right that's fine, I the Secret. So like, this is all.
Speaker 1:I got to do right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it, that's it Exactly Manifest it the giver. Yeah, oh man.
Speaker 4:So yeah, so I don't. Here's what I don't know, because, rebecca, you've two camps. Like I do not fit into the hustle bro camp, right? I'm not. I don't have the energy for that. I've got about four hours of good energy a day and then I'm toast or something. I got to go do something different and I don't have the time to wait to like work through my childhood trauma to grow my business. Right, I got to get sales next week.
Speaker 4:So I think there's a lot of people that were like me, that were stuck in the middle of those and don't quite know why they don't feel like they fit in. Now there's a bunch of real estate agents that are probably very happy with hustle culture because they just love to be busy and they love to multitask and it makes them feel very important and good for them. Right, I'm not interested in them, but I am interested in helping the people that felt left out, like me, and like they don't feel like they fit in and they listen to all of the stuff that's out there on success and when you really pay attention to it it kind of just breaks down into those two camps, because if it's not hustle bro, it's at least productivity, biohacking, and the underlying assumption is success comes from getting more done right, or success comes from being more, being different, being someone better. It's either doing or being. It's like one of the two. That's what I don't agree with, and I think there's a whole segment of people out there.
Speaker 4:I have no idea how big it is. I don't know how big of a niche this is. It could be 2%, it could be 80%, but I'm putting my point of view out there because I know that there's some group of people that are realists, prag pragmatists, uh, over thinkers, deep thinkers, critical thinkers, right, a little negative, um, that have had, you know, life has kicked them in the teeth a bit over the years, and so they really don't fit into the spiritual woo-woo crowd and they don't really fit into the hustle crowd. So it's like they're like well, we're like none of this stuff really resonates and none of it really works. That that's who I'm speaking to now.
Speaker 1:I just have no idea what the percentage is it's the power yoga crowd the power yoga crowd they like the spiritual boo-boo, but they also like going for a really hard workout. They just want to do it the same time.
Speaker 4:There's actually there's there's a guy named sean on youtube that does like bro yoga. He's like a 45 year old dude and while he's doing yoga which is fast and it's like yoga pilates and stuff like that, he'll like a 45 year old dude and while he's doing yoga which is fast and it's like yoga, pilates and stuff like that, he'll like drop like original series star trek references or references to old borla, boris, karloff movies.
Speaker 1:It's great, I have to find. Is this broga?
Speaker 4:because I have to it's not broga, but it's. It's in that, it's in that general, no nonsense yoga without the spirituality, yeah. So yeah, maybe that's that's not a bad idea.
Speaker 2:For the Star Trek bros Sure.
Speaker 1:I like this. Okay, I'm good.
Speaker 2:No, I mean the anti-hustle culture I feel like is definitely becoming more popular, at least in my circles. I'm coming across more people who are like I'm just so over this because it's too much, especially with moms who right now it's summer their kids, especially with moms who right now it's summer, their kids are out of school. They still have their real estate business that they're having to run, but they're also the primary caregiver and it's just, it's overwhelming. And then you get beat up by other people when you're like well, why aren't you doing this, why aren't you doing that?
Speaker 2:You're supposed to be doing more and it's like I feel like I'm already going as fast as I can or you're having to decide. Okay, am I going to spend time with my family? Am I going to spend time on my business? Am I being a bad mom? Am I being a bad agent? And hustle culture doesn't really help you with that, because it's just like get up at 4 am, Just go do the things. I did the things, so why can't you do the things? But everybody's wired different.
Speaker 4:They are wired different, different priorities. Yeah, like, my girl runs the brand called boss mom, so she's got her podcast and the Facebook group is like at 70,000 people and so she has these conversations and has for years. And yeah, like, uh, you know, like I, I have no kids and no interest in having kids, so I like I can't relate to that part of it, but she does, and so she has these conversations. And, yeah, women are insanely conflicted and hustle hustle culture especially does not serve them at all, and so the only people that make it work are. There's somebody in her same space that basically like openly bragged, humble bragged I don't know what you'd call this, but she essentially came out and said look, I built a seven figure business and here's how I did it. I worked day and night on it and I essentially gave my kids to my ex and a nanny to watch them for most of the year while I built this business.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what Gary says yeah, yeah, that's what he did. That's to start. He was like I ignored my family completely to get this thing going. I try to spend time with them every now and then, but I'm putting them to the side to build this thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've never heard him say that openly. I don't pay as much attention to what he has to say.
Speaker 1:It was years ago whenever things were turning.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting, yeah, it's a and here's the problem that people are going to burn out on the hustle culture but because of what's out there and the lack of what, either that'll be the next thing or people are just going to be lost and something else is going to come up. I don't know what else is going to come up, but, yeah, if you just look at the landscape right now, that's essentially the only other thing that's out there, right? So you've got you know, like the last, the last really interesting thing that happened in like self-development was like Mark Manson and Jen Sincero and stuff like that, and all that is is just the same stuff repackaged with cuss words in it, like there's nothing really. You know, it's kind of like letting go acceptance and commitment, therapy, psychology stuff, which is all great, like I love it, but it's like really watered down ACT dressed up with cuss words and then thrown out there. It's like it's like there's, it's like there's a kernel of truth there, and then the rest of it's packaging, so that's the only thing,
Speaker 3:that's really it's cooler now.
Speaker 2:It's a cooler kernel. Yeah, yeah, do you feel like your approach is more sustainable?
Speaker 4:It is for me and for people like me. If your goals are driven by ego? No, and that's the difference. So I see a lot of the hustle. Bro culture essentially pressures you to, to, to set your goals according to what gets the most pats on the back from your circle right, your social circle, your bro circle, whatever. And then, well, now that that goal is set, that holds you accountable. So you get your button gear and you put in the work that it takes to get to that goal.
Speaker 4:I think that's a terrible way to set goals, because when the rubber meets the road, like, what actually determines whether you're successful is the stuff that you do every day, day in, day out, on the rainy days and the days you don't feel like it and the days you're sick and the days that you're tired, right Like. You can't set goals based on how you feel at an event, when you're surrounded by your friends, when you're in a session with your business coach who you want to impress, like it's all driven by ego and so like, if my approach is sustainable, it's sustainable for someone that doesn't give a flying flip what other people think and you only set goals for yourself, then it's sustainable that's good.
Speaker 1:There's a quote every morning at 7 30 ish. I say ish because you know it's usually 7, 30, 7, 35. We have a little morning huddle with my team and I share a quote of the day and just give them a focus for when they're making their calls. You know what to talk about with people, because that's kind of sometimes the hardest part. It's like I just called everybody yesterday and talked about the same thing we could talk, have talked about today.
Speaker 1:I want something different, but the quote of the day today was great works are performed not by strength but by perseverance. Yeah, I think perseverance and just keep going is one of the most often overlooked things in in just even business growth, our business, whatever business you're in, the fact that you continue to go even when it's difficult, you keep going even when you're successful. That's often overlooked where people are like I've kind of made it, yeah, but you have to keep doing what you used to do or else you're not going to be there very long. And it was really interesting. I'm a big word of the year type of guy and I wasn't until like seven, eight years ago. This is kind of relative. I guess it's kind of new Only eight times I've done that.
Speaker 2:Eight years sounds like a long time, but it's only eight times.
Speaker 1:It's a long time, yeah but uh, so I started doing this like word of the year, just like trying to focus around december, january, like, hey, what's going to be my focus, what's going to be my word? And in, uh, in 2020. I just wasn't really coming up with a word. It was kind of difficult. And then the word keep going came to mind. I was like, well, that's two words and that sounds dumb. I don't like this and this is not gonna work. I gotta find something new. So I continued.
Speaker 2:Just keep swimming yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, that's what I kind of thought. I was like this is dumb, and I continued to like try to think through something else. In February I was like fine, we're just going to go with it, keep going, that's the focus, we'll see what happens. March, the pandemic hit. Oh wow. And when that pandemic hit, the soon as everything was like shutting down and people were going home, my that word went keep going, whoa, and. And I got chills that at that time I still get it now just thinking about it. And so for that year and the next year I was just okay, I'm just going to keep going, yeah. And so that was a big like that perseverance and that you know, when you try to just overcome anything that's happening, but also if you're massively successful, overcoming that contentment is not an easy thing to do. So I agree with you. I think perseverance is.
Speaker 4:No, no, that's why your goals have to be set. So what one of my mentors said, like he had a kind of a philosophy on goal setting, which I've tried to incorporate. There's a lot of components to it. On goal setting, which I've tried to incorporate, there's a lot of components to it, but one of the components was, he said, regardless of what you tell yourself or what you tell other people, your real goal is the point that separates whether you have the joy of victory or the agony of defeat. So the line between those two, that's your real goal. So it doesn't matter what you put out to the world or what you put on paper. If your real goal. So it doesn't matter what you put out to the world or what you put on paper, like if your real goal is something completely different, that's what you're subconsciously going to work towards. So when you're dealing with agents that go, oh yeah, like you know, I want to make six figures Like, do you really Cause? Most of the time your agents are comfortable at around 55 grand a year, and we know this because that's when they stop working harder or whatever the line is right. That's because that's the line for them. That's where they no longer feel the agony of defeat anymore and they get a little bit of the joy of victory and that's when they back off. So it's like you can rail at people all day long for like coasting, but it's really.
Speaker 4:The problem is way upstream from that. It's the fact that they weren't honest with themselves about what their real goals were. They set goals based on some other external reason. They want to impress you, they want to impress their other agents, they want to impress the people in the room, they want to impress their spouse. There's some ego reason in setting goals beyond what you actually care about. So yeah, like I kind of I started calling like my mentor's approach like radically honest goal setting. I don't know, there's no great word for it, but yeah, it's kind of like like get radically honest with yourself and just only set the goals and go after the ones that you actually really care about, and that makes your life a lot easier and better. You beat yourself up a lot less.
Speaker 1:That's good, brutal goals that's not bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1:You could probably even spend some time with Chet GPT and come up with a B.
Speaker 4:Yeah, at one point I was going to. He's since passed away, unfortunately, so I can't co-write a book with him, but we had talked about co-writing a book and it was going to be something like everything we know about goal setting is wrong.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good, I like it yeah.
Speaker 2:So I know we're talking about perseverance through things and obviously we just came out of a crazy timeframe, but I think one of the things that you've also talked about, Matt, is overcoming some seemingly unsurmountable challenges, like a big health issue, and still being able to hit those big goals. So is that something that you've dealt with in the past?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Or.
Speaker 4:Yeah, actually I've got a YouTube video on that that drops next week, I believe. Yeah, I got a um so yeah, so I've been thinking about this a lot over the last couple weeks, especially while I was working on that video. And um, so my health issues I've had like autoimmune disorder stuff since I was 15 so I started like having extreme fatigue, all kinds of other physical symptoms and stuff, and that's that's part of why I mentioned I just don't have the energy to even follow the Hustle Bro movement if I wanted to. That's why I'm usually toast. I've got four or five good hours in me and then I'm completely toast to the point where I'm falling asleep narcoleptic style. So anyway, I've had to deal with that for a long time.
Speaker 4:The best thing that I ever did was become an entrepreneur, because then I got control of my time and it disconnected my time from pay by the hour. So for anybody that's in real estate, that's already done. But there's a lot of people out there and there's people that watch my YouTube channel that they're just working a job, like I was eight years ago. They're working for somebody else, and that was part of the problem was, I was trying to get ahead in life, but my best energy of the day was going into my full-time job and I'd get home and I'm like well, I want to practice the drums for three hours. I can't stay awake. So I have big goals and just not have the gas in the tank to chase them.
Speaker 4:So there's a couple of things that I worked out that have helped me that I think would help other people. Number one is cutting a deal with yourself so that you can just focus on one goal at a time. With the music stuff that's kind of on the back burner for now. I'm probably going to do that in my 50s. I did enough to kind of test the concepts and stuff and I like it, but I'm not chasing that right now. I've got one obsessive focus, basically right now. Then what do you do If you're a person that has, if you're what do you call it Multi-passion? I hate that word with every fiber of my being. Why do you hate that word?
Speaker 2:Multi-passion Because.
Speaker 4:I don't care about your passions. You do not care. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:But I get it.
Speaker 4:But I've had multiple interests and hobbies. There's multiple brands, that if I had unlimited energy, I would have a music career and I would have a thriving company and I'd be extremely successful stock investor, like I would. I would do all three of those things and I would chase all three equally at the same time. My energy doesn't work for that. I've got to just chase one at a time. So it's like you have to. You have to be able to cut a deal with yourself to let go of the guilt of putting all that other stuff on the back burner while you focus on one big goal, and that's really hard to do. But if you look at it that way, that's what helped me is I was able to go okay, got it. So I'm not letting that go forever, I'm letting it go for a little while so that I can make a ton of progress in one area. Now that brings you to the final point, which is well, what do you do when you try to shift focus from one goal to the next? Do you then lose all your progress? And the good news is you don't have to. If you build systems and automatic routines that kind of run on autopilot, the sustain the progress you made in that one area, and that's the key. That's where people get off track. When they try to focus on one thing in time, they lose their progress because they never install systems and habits and rituals and routines that keep that thing going to maintain your uh, your progress Right.
Speaker 4:So for me, like in music, I've only had a couple of bursts of time where I've been able to practice like more than four hours a day, which any musician will tell you is child's play. That's like table stakes to get good right. The musicians that I idolized were practicing 10, 12 hours a day. So I've never been able to, I've never had the time to put that much in. So I've only been able to make a lot of progress, like on piano especially. I've only had two bursts of time for about six months in my life where I made most of my progress. All the rest of the time has been maintaining.
Speaker 4:So what I do now, that's the piano in the background right there is. I'll sit down at that while I'm cooking and I just do some basic exercises and I refresh the songs that I know and the solos that I know, and I keep my fingers sharp and I've actually been able to learn pieces of music that I physically could not play two months ago just by sitting down at the piano for five to 10 minutes a day, but doing it every single day. So it's not a focus, I'm not trying to make a bunch of progress, but it keeps me sharp and I'm able to make a little bit of progress and that helps me cut a deal with myself. To go hey, I am a musician, but that's not my public face to the world right now. I'll come back to that later.
Speaker 2:Now I'm assuming that you're not chopping vegetables and playing chopsticks at the same time.
Speaker 4:Well, I'm multi-passionate. Why not? Why not do that?
Speaker 2:He's got one hand over here, another hand over here. He's a drummer.
Speaker 1:He could do that in opposite rhythm most likely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's like a five or four polyrhythm exactly.
Speaker 1:He's actually designed a device that allows him to chop the vegetables with his foot, like yeah there you go.
Speaker 4:That's if I could figure out a way to like incorporate drum practice into cooking. I would I already sit there. I have a um like with my stand-up desk set up to like monitor the stock market and stuff. I'll have my my practice pad to the side. I'll just be practicing, practicing away while I'm like just keeping an eye on things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I try getting into the drums because I like to tip tap a lot, but I could never that's what I call it Tip tapping. I like to tip tap but I can never get like the foot and the hand synchronized.
Speaker 3:It was way too much.
Speaker 1:You can probably not get them unsynchronized.
Speaker 3:My wife used to kick everybody's butt on the drums and guitar On guitar.
Speaker 1:Oh really, get them unsynchronized.
Speaker 4:my wife used to kick everybody's butt on the drums and guitar here on guitar, oh really like the drum, the drums on the guitar, on guitar.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like she or rock band. Maybe it was called rock band, that was one of my favorites. Yeah, I mean she crushed it on the, on the can she play drums? No in the game, if you put.
Speaker 1:if you put colored circles in front of her and slide them, she will be able to play the same with me me, I can play that, but I cannot play drums. But if you put the colors in front of me and had them come down the screen in front of me, I could play the drums for sure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, All of those games would screw me up completely because I'd be going, yeah, but the real part is, you know Well on the expert level of those, so ner expert level on the expert level of those so nerdy, on the expert level of those they even have ghost notes oh seriously.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, you have the ghost notes in there that you have to play, so goodness it's yeah, I know right ghost, so there's there's ghost notes that are like a real slight touch or real it's. It's kind of there. You can barely hear it if you're listening, but that's a difference in the original production by the amazing drummer. And then what the youtube guy is telling you oh, it's just a simple, you just totally, totally misses it yeah, it's like that.
Speaker 4:It's like the subtle nuance that makes something sound cool versus sound boring ghost notes I've never heard of that clearly.
Speaker 1:Um, I did want to circle and yet you like to tip tap around. I like to tip tap around, but I didn't play the drums on rock band or guitar here.
Speaker 4:That has to be the quote of the show.
Speaker 1:Show title we like to tip tap around.
Speaker 4:There we go.
Speaker 2:Why don't you want children? Why don't, I want kids Just.
Speaker 3:Continue on with the easy questions.
Speaker 2:He said it.
Speaker 1:It's on his instagram you can do this later uh, I'll just be very honest with you.
Speaker 4:Kids drive me insane. I, I am. I like I was raised almost as an only child, even though I have 200 kids and my my parents, like raised a very quiet, calm household. I'm allergic to chaos, and kids are chaos generators. I just wasn't raised in chaos.
Speaker 4:The people that I know that are happiest with kids are people that grew up in chaos, so it's just natural for them. It doesn't bother, they don't think of it as chaos. It's chaos to me, it's chaotic to me. Let me clarify my parents are the ones that when they took us out to restaurants, random strangers would go out of their way to come up to my parents to tell them oh my God, how did you get your kids to behave so well Like that was my family? And so kids drain my energy and I don't have an unlimited supply already, and then I can't stand chaos. So, yeah, I'm much happier without kids in my life. Yeah, I'm much happier without kids in my life. I'm very thankful that I didn't meet somebody in my 20s that was kind of like good enough, because I would have gotten married and had kids and been stuck in omaha and they'd be like in high schoolers right now as someone that has three kids, I can definitely you know, agree that they're chaotic and will drain every.
Speaker 3:It's how kids have all the energy is they? They suck all the girls out like vampires? They do, they are little energy vampires Just this shriveled dry mess, the carcass of what used to be.
Speaker 2:I love my four nieces and nephews. But, whenever people tell me oh, I'm so surprised to hear my age. I thought you were younger. I'm like it's because I don't have children. I love them, but I really do feel like they ate you a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:I still look 20. I got, I got five kids. Can we stay on the?
Speaker 3:kissing for just for a second though, and kind of bring it all the way back to how Matt started this, because I'll go ahead and say, matt, I have no idea who you were when you came on the show, but listening to to what you've been talking about, I feel like I do fit, because I've liked following gary v, but I don't buy into the hustle culture. Yeah, and my youngest is now. She'll be 12 in January, and so when I get into real estate, my wife was pregnant with her, and so my whole plan, my whole goal, my drive for real estate was I wanted to work as hard as I could while she was in daycare and be available for her while my wife was working the salary job, keeping the lights on, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I only worked from eight until about 130 when I could pick her back up. And that's how I worked all the way through, really until just two years ago, when I got to a level where I could basically retire my wife and tell her she could stay home. Yeah, and so I did hustle, but it was to do a lot in a short window so that I could prioritize the family and not, you know, make my wife work forever.
Speaker 3:So it was you know, the kids were the driving force for that Cause. I didn't want to do the nine to five and not be able to spend time with them. But I definitely don't buy into the get up at four, stay up until one o'clock in the morning, hell no. And so I always tell people, it's like, look, you just got to prioritize what's important and if you got to get it done in four hours, then get it done in four.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and if you're, you know, if you put a little bit of thought into it, you can usually figure out a way to do that. You know most agents. You know, like we, we all know how it goes. You come into the office and you mill around and you don't get much done and then you, you know, talk to your coworkers and you make some calls and then you go get coffee for 25 minutes and yeah, like we, we know how it goes, Like you don't actually need that much time. Yeah, Like I.
Speaker 4:I just you know, speaking of like the way that you dad kind of pastored when I was younger and I didn't really think about it, but I essentially live kind of the same, the same lifestyle that he did, which is he kept everything small. Uh, my mom was the assistant, my grandparents were like the church secretaries and the admin and they they cleaned, that was it. That was the only staff, and he rolled out and went to the church at six and got home at two and so he was like he was there half the day. I mean I can't imagine, from a kid's perspective, a better situation. I don't know how he, you know, like I wouldn't enjoy that because I don't enjoy the kid part of it he loved it, he loved it I couldn't imagine being there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no but yeah, but that's uh. Yeah Like I. I was homeschooled too. So, like the, yeah like I, I didn off on me until I got my own business, and then I had the option of getting an office and getting staff or building a real estate team and having a bunch of people that relied on me every day to keep motivated, and I ended up building a business in the exact same way my dad built his church. So it's kind of funny how things come around.
Speaker 2:This is why Matt loves his hermit lifestyle, because he just does not want to be around people at all.
Speaker 4:I don't know about being around people, but I have a couple hours of calls a day and I'm good. This is my second hour.
Speaker 2:Your second hour of the day. This is my second hour of calls of the day.
Speaker 1:Okay, so do you have to recharge if you're at a party or something like that? When you get back from that, do you feel physically drained, drained?
Speaker 4:oh yeah, if I, if I stay 10 minutes longer than my cutoff point, like when my, when I hit the wall, oh, I'm very cranky and have to leave immediately. Yeah, that's why I can't like. Okay, so I'm a cancer, right? Uh, the best, the best word for a cancer is obsquatulate. This is what my girl told me she's. She's on a bunch of cancers over the years her daughter's cancer. So, uh, she had a friend that would just, in college, would like go to that, go to a party together, and the next thing you know, like 90 minutes later, the girl would just literally disappear. She wouldn't say goodbye to anyone, she would just exit, stage left and that'd be it Irish goodbye, something like that. Yeah, so that that's called a squatulate. You just basically leave, you Don't tell anyone. That's what a cancer does. That's what I do. So if I'm there at a party, the next thing you'll turn around is I just won't be there.
Speaker 4:Have you ever done the Enneagram thing? I've done it.
Speaker 1:I wasn't too impressed with the Enneagram, so I'm a five. You explained what a five is. That's pretty much it Is it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you don't let anyone yeah, yeah, I mean I like myers-briggs, I'm an intj oh, me too. So architect, deep thinker, yeah, yeah. So you know, yeah, that's the drill. Um, so maybe I am the same on an enneagram. I thought I was something else, but yeah, it didn't nail me completely like intj. When I read the description on 16 personalities I'm like like get out of my brain. Um, intj, that's pretty dead on.
Speaker 2:That's interesting rick, are you an introvert or an extrovert?
Speaker 3:well. So when we were talking about this, I used to think I was an extrovert, until I really started have we talked about this before?
Speaker 3:I don't think so okay, maybe, but so back in 2019 I was in a leadership class here and we had a two-day intensive on the personality types and I went in. I'm like, oh, I know I'm an extrovert and all this kind of stuff, and they started doing the thing and I was like, wait, that sounds like me, because last year at florida realtors convention, after two days of convention, I had to be there for the full seven days. After two days, I locked myself in my hotel room and didn't answer the phone.
Speaker 3:It was a seven day convention it was two days of convention, and five days is like state meetings for state directors, and I had to be there for the whole seven days. And so on the third day I literally just disappeared and just locked myself in the room, ordered room service and didn't answer the phone except for to talk to my wife and my kids. Now I was like where'd you go before I?
Speaker 4:get up in a previous life. One of the one of the crazy jobs I did while I was a musician is I did like hand-to-hand sales from a booth at trade shows and art shows and big shows right. That's why I traveled all around and stuff. I mean we're talking about stock shows that were 10 days long, 10 to 12 hours in the booth and I'm an introvert that sounds I'm talking about training, yeah oh my god, did you make a lot of sales, though I did well
Speaker 1:okay, are we all into rebecca? Are you an introvert?
Speaker 2:I'm an ambivert so she's making stuff up now I am not making things up, okay not even real I gain energy from people or situations that I'm familiar with or that I like, but if it's something that's unfamiliar or with a bunch of people that I don't know, then I am more introverted. Because it's more draining, because I'm spending my time kind of analyzing what is this, who are these people?
Speaker 4:How do I engage and?
Speaker 2:interact and relate with them. But if it's my family or people that I know, or like at a conference with like at least one person that I know, I can usually engage and I have a really good time and I'm not as drained, I think I can probably go a little bit longer than you guys can with some of that.
Speaker 1:No, I can turn it on and fake it like a champ and then when I get back, I'm exhausted and just have.
Speaker 3:That's why, right, because you have to turn it on to just drive even showing houses. If I have a full day of showings, yep, I come home and I'm wiped from being on all day.
Speaker 4:Yeah, One of the best things I stumbled across, because I used to book a lot of our guests in the early days and I remember booking. Anybody know who? Lance Loken is Super high up in. Kw.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I don't know if he's still with K, but the time he was with kw they were doing 2 000 sides a year. He was one of the top five or ten teams in kw.
Speaker 4:so like super introverted and I'm like started really thinking about greg harrelson does like eight million gci in south carolina introvert. Now there's there's plenty of jeff cones of the world that are like massive extroverts but you'd'd be shocked like not not of the rank and file people that are still doing the business. I'm talking about the team leaders Lars Hedenberg, natural introvert, like I started kind of racking up. I'm like that's really interesting, like the people that actually end up building really good quality, well-run real estate teams. A lot of them are introverts and that kind of like opened my mind to like what was possible.
Speaker 2:Why do you?
Speaker 4:think that is Well. Some of it's practical. I think a lot of those people. Because they don't like people, they push themselves to get into other areas of the business and grow so that they can exit production. Another part of it is they tend to be a little bit more systematic. You know, like your average high IS agent, your people person, they're just running around like a chicken with their head cut off, like one of them told me. Like you know, my organizational system is to write things down on scraps of paper and then lose the scraps of paper. You know, like that guy.
Speaker 1:So so the team leaders, the people that build teams, yeah, anyway, that was a fun conversation of trying to help her. Um, yeah but have you ever heard the?
Speaker 2:David Allen systematic.
Speaker 1:Have you ever heard the David Allen strategy with that?
Speaker 4:Uh, heard of it. Heard enough of it to probably incorporate some things. I'm sure it probably shows up in my productivity somewhat, but my productivity is like 80, 20 to shit out of everything. That's my, that's my productivity. I want to do the least amount possible and get the highest benefit, as opposed to try to get the most done. So I probably take a little bit different approach. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that's good. That sounds like the right way to do it. It's like, let me do as little as possible but get the most out of it.
Speaker 3:The key to life.
Speaker 1:Right there, it seems like he's nailed it, and that's where a lot of people get the idea to like write stuff down that's in your head and put it on little pieces of paper.
Speaker 2:But there's a whole second half to that chapter and that's like going through a process. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I got a remarkable.
Speaker 1:I got it all down. I wrote it down. It's out of my head, so I'm good. It's like well, no, there's another step or two to take, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:I got a remarkable tablet so that I would not lose all the little pieces of paper where I'm writing things.
Speaker 4:I was like I need to have it all in one space. My girl has one of those. Do you like it?
Speaker 2:I love it. It is the best.
Speaker 4:It's cool. Yeah, I haven't used it. When she got hers, I kind of paid attention to how she used it and, whether I would like it or not, I have terrible handwriting and my hand cramps up from 40 years of playing the drums, so it's not ideal for me. And she goes through phases. So she'll use it intensively for three or four months and then set it aside for three or four months and you go back to pen and paper. So yeah, just um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I it's uh, it's almost like if I need to do some intense thought that I don't want to lose, I will use it like crazy at a conference. I use it like crazy and then like when I'm processing stuff after a conference or when we're doing something new in the business, and then I feel like once I've thought about all that stuff and I have it in one place and I kind of have the idea and the plan, you close it and then implement and then I like I need to think about it again, open it back up.
Speaker 1:All right, what happened? What's wrong? You know? Yeah, yeah, I could.
Speaker 4:I could see something different for everybody. But yeah, I do think that there's nothing wrong with kind of going from technique to tactic to you know stuff like that, until you find something that really works. I mean, I use Trello and and then workflow and stuff like that, so that combination of things has worked for me for a long time. But it took a bunch of tinkering with other stuff to find that that works for me. And even I have that issue where I have so little on my to-do list anymore that I have to force myself to look at Trello to remind myself that oh, there was that one thing that I needed to get done today, because I yeah, I've, just I've, I've stripped my schedule down so much that now I have to like I have the opposite problem I have to force myself to look at my to-do list to remind myself that there is anything there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. What?
Speaker 4:do I need to do now?
Speaker 1:Maybe I'll work, maybe I won't.
Speaker 4:But the one thing on that to-do list is really freaking important. I can't forget it. That's the point. Like you can't put it off and then go. Oh, I forgot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's a major thing. Because it's a major thing forgot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's a major thing. Because it's a major thing, that's what? Uh, what, what's the famous author john maxwell? He says to have five things that you do every single day without fail. Just five things that you do every single day and then everything else, just, you know, you, you fit it in somewhere, but there's five things that you choose to do. Every oh, what happened? Oh, just the camera.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's putting his hood and the lights on, changed my video input oh, look at that.
Speaker 1:Now you are a black screen oh no he's like I'm gonna Irish goodbye now. I'm just gonna leave for someone that's a loner and that's our show today, guys are you coming back, matt?
Speaker 4:I'm here. We're in like a completely different view. Yeah, my uh, my good, my good camera, just uh, I think it's been over an hour, so battery died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also overheat over time mine does.
Speaker 4:When I have it plugged into the external power supply, it overheats and shuts down even faster than if I just have it unplugged. So it's like defeated the point of buying that thing. Yeah, yeah, that's super fun.
Speaker 1:So you need an old camera Mine, the one I'm using, so your gimbal died, yeah, so suddenly like roll.
Speaker 3:All the batteries are like it's been too long. I'm just glad it's not me having the technical difficulties this time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, last time I had a major lag on my end because of my internet.
Speaker 4:So, I plugged in today.
Speaker 3:Wasn't sure how it worked.
Speaker 2:I was frozen half the time, yeah. So how can we all learn how to do less with more time From you, matt.
Speaker 4:Oh, timeless success on YouTube. That's the best place to go and they're all in the interest of saving time. They're somewhere between three and five minutes. I don't do long videos.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:Nice.
Speaker 2:I love. It All right, and what's a quick overview of your micro famous book. Is that your only book that you have out, or do you have others?
Speaker 4:No, yeah, it's the only book that I've written and published. Yeah, the stuff that I'm doing on YouTube is laying the groundwork for a future book, but I don't know if I'm going to write that two years from now, five years from now, like. I want to build the audience first and do a lot of testing in the writing process. So a quick synopsis is basically if you want to get into being any kind of a thought leader, this is the marketing strategy that will get you known for one thing and something that actually makes you famous in that space, so that you can have the types of clients that you want and make the impact that you want.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I'm going to have to check this out, yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe we should do that in our next book club.
Speaker 1:Do the micro famous?
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've already picked one, but we'd see you a book club within a real brokerage, because we're better than you.
Speaker 4:But we'd do a book club within a real brokerage, because we're better than he is. Well, if you need suggestions, if you need suggestions for red books, for your book club all these red books are beautiful.
Speaker 2:All those red books are his book. Well, matt, thank you so much for coming on today and making the time. I feel like I kind of tricked you into coming here but coming out of your hermit cave.
Speaker 1:I want to know more about the tricks. It's good.
Speaker 4:It reminds me of my days on Real Estate Uncensored. It was a lot of fun. I like the format. Yay, I love it.
Speaker 1:Well, good, well, thanks for dropping by man.
Speaker 3:Yeah cool, thank you guys. All right, I'll see you later.
Speaker 2:We'll see ya. So, as far as like becoming a thought leader, I really like that aspect of what he is bringing in his book Microfamous, because I feel like that's more of what our conversations have been leaning towards in our masterminds and stuff. It's not about getting all the likes, it's not about getting a ton of subscribers, it's getting in front of the right audience and in front of the right people, because you're not going to be able to market to every single person, right?
Speaker 3:we can't do we have to like?
Speaker 1:create a coaching program now, like at the beginning he was talking about coaching program.
Speaker 1:I was like it up, man guru oh, we gotta have multiple streams of income apparently no, I definitely I'm gonna read his book, though um, oops, hang on, sorry, my phone rang. I definitely want to want to read his book because I'm curious if he describes what I did in just one part of my life. You know, when I I guess in 2016, 17, I focused so intently on one thing that you could say I became micro famous for a real estate guy who does video, for a real estate guy who does video, and because of that I got all these speaking gigs and got to tour, and you know, all that stuff happened and kind of vaulted me into where people, a lot of people, refer to me, you know, in Arkansas, because they know me from the that time period. And even today some people will come up and say, hey, I've been watching your podcast for years, or something like that.
Speaker 1:And it was from that launch where you can't you, there's no way you could look at what I did and say that I was famous, but you could say, within that very tight, small niche of real estate video from 2016 to 2018. Right, like it was it, it was it. So I'm really curious like what he cause. I feel like I kind of hacked the system it. So I'm really curious like what he? Because I feel like I kind of hacked the system when I did all that. You know, I I kind of I wanted I did it on purpose. I wanted to do it because I felt like to get a referral to arkansas.
Speaker 1:You've got to cast a pretty wide net and and so I felt like and even when I did it, I was like, well, this was the whole purpose of doing this. It wasn't necessarily to sell a ton more houses, it wasn't necessarily to get a bunch of local exposure. The whole point of me doing that was to get national exposure so that I could get more referrals. So I'm curious now how his book relates to that type of scenario.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It all plays into the whole branding and niches, or the riches are in the niches. I mean it's 15 different ways to say the same thing, right? I mean, if you're trying to be known for too many things, you're not going to be known. You kind of got to narrow it down and, I guess, be micro-famous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and not multi-passioned which. I struggle with because I have so many passions.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Actually they're not all passions. It's just like we're told you have to do so many different things in real estate, you have to be a well, we're not going to list through it, but yeah, figuring out how to do more in less time with less effort, I'm here for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was good. I liked having him on here, it was fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:For sure I actually know Greg from Clubhouse, his co-host.
Speaker 2:Oh, do you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's why, when you said, I was like oh, I know this guy from that, from the Clubhouse days, even though he thinks Clubhouse is a waste of time.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of people that do.
Speaker 2:I never got into it.
Speaker 1:I know Ray's a fan. Ray, you liked it. We broadcast our show there every week, but it can be a waste of time. All you liked it. We broadcast our show there every week, but it can be a waste of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, All right guys.
Speaker 1:Well, this is fun. Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 2:See you next time. See you next time.
